Irony in a Transgender discussion.

RialVestroRialVestro Multiple Personality DisorderThe state of InsanityPosts: 6,398 ✭✭✭
edited November 2017 in General Discussion
I stumbled on this video on YouTube which was a debate regarding Transgender people.

One of the people in the discussion was openly refusing to identify trans genders as anything other than their biological gender. I don't think he was intending to be rude or hateful, he was just calmly stating a fact that biology doesn't change just because you choose to identify as the opposite gender.

Now the ironic part of this is that a woman sitting next to him was transgender and got offended because of his comments. Which is understandable to a point. Except here's the ironic part...

Both sides of the debate were against bullying and agreeing that bullying is wrong but this woman started putting her hands around his neck and threatening to put him in the hospital if he continued to identify her as a man. He never did anything physical towards her, he never tried to threaten her in any way, even as this was going on he never got violent, he was only trying to state biological facts and he was physically threatened for doing so. In this particular instance she was being the bully not him.

While I don't really agree with his views, she wants to be called a woman fine it doesn't hurt anybody. He seems to think it's harmful but whatever. It doesn't matter who you agree with or don't agree with here. When you threaten to put someone in the hospital and put your hands on them in a way that suggests strangling, that is uncalled for in this situation. If he was threatening her then by all ,means she has the right to defend herself but when she was the one initiating the threats against him, that doesn't really help the transgender community. People are more likely to side with him when she's the one trying to bully him into doing what she wants. That's not how a discussion works, you don't threaten someone who disagrees with you, you listen to his argument and present a counter argument. There were seven people in this debate and six of them were ganging up on this one guy while he was being threatened by this woman like he was the bad guy. Yes his comments were offensive, I'm not questioning that but they did not warrant the threats and harassment he got for making them.

I've seen him in other debates because for some reason YouTube recommended I check out his videos and while I don't agree with everything he says he does seem to present his arguments in a very calm manner when given the chance to actually speak his mind. But this one video he was being constantly interrupted and threatened. And they called this a debate but they were the ones not being civil. And that's the irony is they insisted he was the hateful bigot when she was the one bulling him in this situation.

I've had similar debates in the past, and there was a time I would have agreed with him but I've been lucky that the people I've talked to have not tried to threaten my life just because I didn't agree with them. That's not how you convince someone to be accepting. If you threaten someone they will say whatever you want them to but they might not actually believe what it is they're saying. They'd only be agreeing because they're afraid to say what they really think. A civil discussion requires listening to what someone has to say even if you don't like it and presenting a counter argument. This might not work on everyone, I know from experience some people can not be convinced they're wrong. But others can and this guy, I think if someone calmly explained to him their point of view and listen to his side of the argument, I think you could come to some kind of a compromise much like I have with the few people I've talked to. But I know if someone threatened me the way that woman threatened him it would of only strengthened the beliefs I already had not weakened them. I might pretend to agree just out of fear but inside I'd still think she's a man. And then would later use the insident to discredit any other transgender arguments in the future. I might even be doing that now except for the fact I realize this was one isolated insident and this woman doesn't represent the entire transgender community. Others however, truly bigoted people might not see it that way.

I've seen it before where one isolated incident was enough to make people hate an entire race or religion. My uncle was beat up by five black guys who ganged up on him and till the day he died he was convinced all black people were exactly like those five guys. After 9-11 many people including our current president decided that all Muslims were evil even though in reality those were a small group of extremists and the majority of the Muslim community doesn't agree with their actions. Their own government even aided us in the search for the man responsible but many people still think we're at war with Iraq. We're fighting a war against terrorists not the country of Iraq.

I just wanted to make it clear I'm not judging any other trans genders based on the actions of this one woman. I'm just saying that as a society, her actions reflect negatively on the community because let's face it, most people are idiots not rational thinking people. Any rational thinking person would realize she is just one individual and other Transgender people should be judged based on their own individual actions not on what this woman did. Idiots however think well if she's this violent then maybe all these people are violent too. And that's why she could be having a negative effect on the Transgender community.

I haven't named any of the people involved because honestly I don't think they need any more attention. But if you really want to try to have a real discussion on the topic I'm sure you could find the video if you look up Transgender woman threatens Jewish man.

The basic message of this thread to some this up, being rude is not an excuse to make threats to send someone to the hospital. That is bulling, it's terrorism, and physical threats have no place in a civil discussion. I am referring to this woman by the gender she prefers, not out of respect for her because as far as I'm concerned she doesn't deserve it. I'm only calling her a woman out of respect for other trans genders that I've talked to on this forum but honesty in her specific case, threatening anyone who doesn't agree with her, she doesn't deserve it. With your permission I'd like to call her by her biological gender just to demonstrate people can't be threatened into agreeing with your views. Other trans genders I will continue to call you by whatever gender you want but this lady doesn't deserve to be called a lady, not if she's going to use threats to force people to call her that. For right now I'm not sure if that would be offensive even if it's not towards you so I'm asking.
Ni, peng, nee-wom! Ecky, ecky, ecky, pakang, zoom-ping! Baa weep grahna weep ninny bong!


  • JMcKJMcK 51.44°N, 0.33°WPosts: 38
    1) Really? I've heard this "violent" narrative so many times and it never turns out to be true.

    2) "this lady doesn't deserve to be called a lady" No mate, it doesn't work that way. You either support people's rights to self-determination or you don't. You don't get to impose conditions like that.
    Never fear to be kind, but never confuse kindness with ego.
  • samuelllsamuelll Posts: 4
    Even if you disagree with someone you shouldn't misgender them. That does nothing more than making them see you as the enemy as well that it's just disrespectful. I agree that threatening people to make them agree is the worst way to go but you misgendering her as the same effect.
    I don't agree with Caitlyn Jenner on alot of things but she is still a woman no matter what.
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